From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on atuin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.5 required=3.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL,SPF_HELO_PASS autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from [127.0.1.1] (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by atuin.qyliss.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BF2FFB24; Sun, 12 Jan 2020 20:28:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com (out4-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.28]) by atuin.qyliss.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 09424FAF1 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 2020 20:28:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from compute7.internal (compute7.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C420220CA; Sun, 12 Jan 2020 15:28:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 12 Jan 2020 15:28:31 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=alyssa.is; h= from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :mime-version:content-type; s=fm2; bh=Yqa2FGNaBjR7Q0Rq4ESMb9XwVn fuV6MkFg3S9k0sIRY=; b=UGVJY3V9qT6oWEfjaXZobjz3NMhdnn9LT46nEwLr+c jmXR+Yfe2fq3+yeUYVP9at3JK621OQaFf1zUrRc+dySg5wuGzoRDPM49wYk8Bxre rwP+fTNfef2A1fnx2k6eVzxRq1UDELVE3xW3dneR7GWd0jU4t1Eqsui4h06C3R37 rnvquKtpWkbydDhsCpderhO1RrTsBPmDySeXTgiMPffJhuTFX0pjjWhs/jIsH3AF LcRBnlpiAgt3U68mlvoS+wqt8ASBkzzyMvxUHgB00/LXI08FRyAJhu8F7gOue4xL 0y31oa7Xfrz7Iyk47AmVq3jkRFgco3a+2QVqzP8WF/dg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=Yqa2FG NaBjR7Q0Rq4ESMb9XwVnfuV6MkFg3S9k0sIRY=; b=jdFWmKMedRgmdrO8rGeU9W WfAcH5AmHcDk15/wYOGJeNdMyWea30lObwUt0jOlIekCYjSMq3KzE5CsrtMaFPG0 iEpDE25CXMKs6WQiRhWJUeJmS1MkBWzaxSrcUZpvVTyUH/ySxqkDlss41T2KeXgf 1/1FX3ncxZQuvR3tBgXHNTgmwxGGPdfdU7qPe+pYkGvof8jS00XK1YKv7Hg3Uj73 TYfBQGWTn8XJt5FnCRNjzAmpTiHx9591opss/yGSDVLtCW3bOCCPV/SiSu7gr9HG UXg2o76odLCeX3Op5dFFdJZbWOpJvYZFHb+0yYsE4g3JRtoWlgdlzTvUKjthXqSg == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedufedrvdeikedgudefkecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhephffvufgjfhffkfggtgesghdtre ertddttdenucfhrhhomheptehlhihsshgrucftohhsshcuoehhihesrghlhihsshgrrdhi sheqnecuffhomhgrihhnpehsphgvtghtrhhumhdqohhsrdhorhhgnecukfhppeekuddrud ekjedrvddvgedrudeftdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhephhhisegrlhihshhs rgdrihhsnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptd X-ME-Proxy: Received: from x220.qyliss.net (130.224.187.81.in-addr.arpa [81.187.224.130]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id D09AE80060; Sun, 12 Jan 2020 15:28:30 -0500 (EST) Received: by x220.qyliss.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id D7B669E6; Sun, 12 Jan 2020 20:28:29 +0000 (UTC) From: Alyssa Ross To: /#!/JoePea Subject: Re: Private GitLab for development? In-Reply-To: References: <87wo9zueri.fsf@alyssa.is> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2020 20:28:26 +0000 Message-ID: <87d0boju6t.fsf@alyssa.is> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Message-ID-Hash: AJRVGQP3MCLYIA4OS3MBMY6OK365HALP X-Message-ID-Hash: AJRVGQP3MCLYIA4OS3MBMY6OK365HALP X-MailFrom: hi@alyssa.is X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; suspicious-header CC: discuss@spectrum-os.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.2.2 Precedence: list List-Id: General high-level discussion about Spectrum Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > There's other benefits like cross linking with #123 format, @mentions, > labels, thread state (open/closed/locked), diff view for pull > requests, etc, etc, things that email doesn't have. :) Mail has all of these, except labels and thread state, and I think that's desirable. Keeping an issue tracker up to date is time consuming and ultimately impossible to get right. Case in point: Nixpkgs' issue tracker. As for your other points: =2D You can include URLs to mailing list archives, or even just message IDs, which you can look up in public-inbox[1]. =2D Mentions are called Cc in email. =2D Diffs are how changes are generally communicated over email[2]. [1]: https://spectrum-os.org/lists/archives/ [2]: e.g. https://spectrum-os.org/lists/archives/spectrum-devel/87eewn9g8q.fsf@a= lyssa.is/T/#iZ2e.:..:20191229170906.362205-1-nicoo::40debian.org:0start-vm.= nix Meanwhile, there are lots of advantages to email. Here are some (but not all) of them: =2D There are lots of different email clients available, so people can use whichever one meets their needs. GitHub has to cater for the novice and advanced users all at once, whereas with email these use cases can be handled by different clients well suited to their specific tasks. For example, I'm writing this email from Emacs, which is a much more pleasant composition interface than a text field in a web browser, and this makes a big difference when you deal with a lot of different threads. And if you prefer writing in a text area in a web browser, you can do that too. =20=20 =2D Email has proper threading, not flat conversations like GitHub has. Ever tried to follow a NixOS RFC, or even worse, a Rust one? Because of its support for proper arbitrary-depth threading, long, detailed conversations are much easier to follow over email. =2D I don't need to supply Git hosting to every potential contributor, and nor do they have to find their own, because no hosting is required so send a patch over email. It's also a much easier flow to teach somebody who's new to Git. You don't need to know what a branch is, what a fork is, or to sign up for an account anywhere. > The attached screenshot shows how email makes things more difficult. > It's would be PITA to configure all my devices for this list. Ah, yes, this is unfortunate. Thank you for raising it. Rejecting HTML mail was a decision I made for a few reasons: =2D public-inbox doesn't support it. =2D Patches would be mangled if pasted into an HTML-generating composer. =2D It's been the source of several major security bugs in mail clients, because it's such a complex format. Now, given it would be good for Spectrum if people who did not know or care about the difference between HTML and plain text mail were able to ask questions and get support, I do think that probably I should relax this for the discuss@ list (but not devel@, where not mangling patches is important, and people can be expected to be a bit more technical). discuss@ could just discard HTML parts, and that would still prevent exposing other people to HTML mail, without forcing people to manually disable it in their clients. But, despite all of its many advantages, I know there are people who for whatever reason don't want to use email, and that's why we have a Hyperkitty. If you prefer reading and writing messages in a web browser, that's what Hyperkitty is there for. You don't have to use a mail client if you don't want to. Unlike, with GitHub/GitLab, nobody is forced to use any particular way of interacting with the discussions. That's one of the best things about mailing lists. ;) > Let me try hyperkitty; it may be the only way for me to use the list. I hope it works well for you. If there's anything I have configured poorly about it, please let me know and I'll try to make it better if I can. --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEH9wgcxqlHM/ARR3h+dvtSFmyccAFAl4bgWsACgkQ+dvtSFmy ccDjqw/+NunTxWMp9IasjjSr9xtR5kbW346feBeoEJAGVlbKWInTnCvwskp/lezy +4NPaWFXA4R4ZthI0h+Xb+JszO3yiuO9AqhmVb3cQWsmcozZ9KlSxTXaZJW32NRq cFYL+bOhBzTFIyUCwoqWcej5oEHoIeofkLbdnzYyzgAt/yx/ph/6AvvUN0ScEDnl N4nkQsA3ooGjJI/Ye4Yi3PTNiVV8/vggtKIhZTDORwwBypRz+ATXghG8R3HBW1KB pfZELFgH7tyHK4ytpH1ivLaHbp9EjTkJuSM0y5FHe8bsqp/z3sGQbrvhncyphsfq cUsyhrJcst/pOIvLo071sSWsiyMVDBBc20n9CyeHY6HBfg0fewlujMP/E/EuXatM U04jw3En4JfGACx4lMR73P3vD70DAwk64y2vWd6qqRcpSly+FG8ojDE61CpCvwzI vwf7+7dQv82KBnZAEzIp9rOjzyspeHky4l8xsVJ0BK1Yo0i/xsMhTZ34lvhS+bgW JIlZnHgnUz5CGfTCChZuBuHumhOr4jpMkcOYGwlYtszM28CmW8LEGwC0oCiM6EZv v4k9Rbdjcc+KLNuos8p8lZUgnNFpQruAiogm3eCUNmGLCU2OvLyAb6j9eXyYG47e z/SVICqGcAC9TR5dtPfSeX3dQ4Nuv0CafFxUGypOFQzSKmyj8RM= =s1m8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--