From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.6 (2021-04-09) on atuin.qyliss.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, SPF_HELO_NONE autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.6 Received: from atuin.qyliss.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by atuin.qyliss.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3C7E55E1B; Wed, 7 Dec 2022 07:42:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: by atuin.qyliss.net (Postfix, from userid 496) id DAFB255E10; Wed, 7 Dec 2022 07:42:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-lj1-x230.google.com (mail-lj1-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::230]) by atuin.qyliss.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E1EC455E0C for ; Wed, 7 Dec 2022 07:42:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-lj1-x230.google.com with SMTP id x6so19923637lji.10 for ; Tue, 06 Dec 2022 23:42:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=unikie.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:message-id:cc:to:subject:from :date:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Z+eR1sAgXUt1L9a1TEGV/CqRxmQicqyetp1+FFBY2qY=; b=G3i1zhcxW44Aq3KNiA2vsJeAAwnpq+CrH9+sxU2E63RhaFFctjfwKQY0A4baIY0gtS iiAlk5mkMVmOkRg+XkM75eX9wpQpYwUTY+LbWvxP83SI0Q3xx6AIsQF5oe6NXn8ANSH5 A1r4+wZVhoKwKLnNa+RV2cuGe5/kpZxr0peqKv0ORSpE3NqE6C81tOiTtvpjyR6zvM0D NqHirez/nv5coQHOsg/Nrv+H2Erc1R7uVBiDO+uckE9LcEzlD/w/b03CxpMsFkgEe3yh j95HJnhN8Znxb8TOsmtAntgxNIxNFnt9OkZL7kn2xWaVx6oNJvTJFqHXUWRm1dNWGY5a ZwTw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:message-id:cc:to:subject:from :date:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Z+eR1sAgXUt1L9a1TEGV/CqRxmQicqyetp1+FFBY2qY=; b=llTwwECF8WV92sVCe9MFLPXULpGw1eGiIeIxOjOf6/sBTzrYDiCz5wIbiH36rNyfhr 7vMdYy0i/nIfHTj0O7GE8Z5am/46IN6GH27LYZL1L7uHXI0C7DG+viU5AYDhkuV29XU1 u2J/ldCfLjSS94fVV43Jl+FWwcYovI2gcgbbCrHiW5Qfrq7bQrTy4A9eXdASwVhafV1n CDR6Dsiz8TWmnnDkYo6Pqw7VuzFiEU6ztImvKoyX9SSxsA3vYkmvfEK4TFR6ZALs79gJ DpeAxo82p586mvR16ucdg2/CfupEN2g/Y6+3e4ugxSwpLH1SgCoYHLfno34OBXRQ5FAv HTgg== X-Gm-Message-State: ANoB5pk0B4yR5jOj/KqeiFom6spkIEZy70I946BhQPYuVa5bvj1NunM9 Ut4dt7ZngdbeGCmHTfltG6YyvA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA0mqf6wZzUkLrMvivsDQccLDXEqbtfhNUS95OtsiYg8Ky1pdfAblUm/r1roOcNB+Iqy/Ny9i4DO+Q== X-Received: by 2002:a05:651c:881:b0:279:e110:de3d with SMTP id d1-20020a05651c088100b00279e110de3dmr5995027ljq.95.1670398923108; Tue, 06 Dec 2022 23:42:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.18.8.111] ([109.204.204.138]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a12-20020a2ebe8c000000b0026fb1c3e6ddsm1795367ljr.62.2022.12.06.23.42.02 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 06 Dec 2022 23:42:02 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2022 09:41:56 +0200 From: vadik likholetov Subject: Re: Firefox appVM patches and appVM refactoring To: Alyssa Ross Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20221206202545.lb53nydhf7c2rd7i@x220> References: <20221206152011.lhk7jc64nqtkd7xo@x220> <20221206171022.5kwkddpjet3q7ks4@x220> <20221206202545.lb53nydhf7c2rd7i@x220> X-Mailer: geary/40.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=-CFHouKbmWeuhcer5I5aJ" Message-ID-Hash: JQTSBZ33OQD5IPPPFQQSG64AECM636FY X-Message-ID-Hash: JQTSBZ33OQD5IPPPFQQSG64AECM636FY X-MailFrom: vadim.likholetov@unikie.com X-Mailman-Rule-Hits: header-match-devel.spectrum-os.org-0 X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-config-1 CC: devel@spectrum-os.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Patches and low-level development discussion Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --=-CFHouKbmWeuhcer5I5aJ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1251; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On ti, joulu 6 2022 at 20.25.45 +00:00:00, Alyssa Ross=20 wrote: > On Tue, Dec 06, 2022 at 10:12:49PM +0200, Vadim Likholetov wrote: >> I=92ll try to explain =97 running as user is not just dropping the=20 >> priviledges, it is about preparing the environment - making home=20 >> directory, fixing permissions, allocating pty-s in case of=20 >> interactive sessions, setting environment variables. >> Many system daemons like dbus, pipewire , etc has their=20 >> system-level and user-level parts and we should manage this=20 >> separately =97 and it is our nearest future if we want some complex=20 >> user environments to run on Spectrum, and possibly the packages for=20 >> this daemons will extend this environment transparent to the user. >>=20 >> So it=92s s another form of encapsulation like we discussed about=20 >> making a separate layer for wayland. >=20 > Ah, thanks for the explanation. I understand now! >=20 > You're quite right about running user daemons like PipeWire. > I think to manage those, we'd want to run a user-level s6(-rc)=20 > instance, > so that the services are supervised, and can therefore be restarted if > they crash, and dependencies can be taken care of, and logs can be > managed however that should work. >=20 > Let's try adding PipeWire, D-Bus etc. daemons straight to the img/app > image? It's intended to be the default image for running=20 > applications, > so anything that an application is likely to expect to be running=20 > should > be provided by that image by default. And then later on, when it=20 > comes > up, we can figure out how to support adding extra services, or whether > we should support removing default services from the image, etc. How > does that sound? Sounds good if we add both user and system parts of dbus or pipewire=20 subsystem -- the system part when the system starts and the user=20 part when the user "logs in". Adding it only to system part doesn't make sense IMO. I can try to prototype it on the basis of s6 features if we agree=20 about architecure :) --=20 vadik likholetov --=-CFHouKbmWeuhcer5I5aJ Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1251 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On ti, joulu 6 2022 at 20.25.45 +00:00:= 00, Alyssa Ross <alyssa.ross@unikie.com> wrote:
On = Tue, Dec 06, 2022 at 10:12:49PM +0200, Vadim Likholetov wrote:
I=92ll try to explain =97 running as user is not just dropping= the priviledges, it is about preparing the environment - making home direc= tory, fixing permissions, allocating pty-s in case of interactive sessions,= setting environment variables. Many system daemons like dbus, pipewire , etc has their system-level and = user-level parts and we should manage this separately =97 and it is our nea= rest future if we want some complex user environments to run on Spectrum, a= nd possibly the packages for this daemons will extend this environment tran= sparent to the user. So it=92s s another form of encapsulation like we discussed about making = a separate layer for wayland.
Ah, thanks for the explanation. I understand now! You're quite right about running user daemons like PipeWire. I think to manage those, we'd want to run a user-level s6(-rc) instance, so that the services are supervised, and can therefore be restarted if they crash, and dependencies can be taken care of, and logs can be managed however that should work. Let's try adding PipeWire, D-Bus etc. daemons straight to the img/app image? It's intended to be the default image for running applications, so anything that an application is likely to expect to be running should be provided by that image by default. And then later on, when it comes up, we can figure out how to support adding extra services, or whether we should support removing default services from the image, etc. How does that sound?

  Sounds good if we add both us= er and system parts of dbus or pipewire subsystem -- the system part when t= he system    starts and the user part when the user "logs in". Adding it only to system part doesn't make sense IMO.
&nbs= p; I can try to prototype it on the basis of s6 features if we agree about = architecure :)
-- =
vadik likholetov
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