From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.3 (2019-12-06) on atuin.qyliss.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_INVALID, DKIM_SIGNED,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL,SPF_HELO_PASS autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.3 Received: by atuin.qyliss.net (Postfix, from userid 496) id 90BCF29F95; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 12:01:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by atuin.qyliss.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C046E29F8F; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 12:01:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: by atuin.qyliss.net (Postfix, from userid 496) id CEBD829F5D; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 12:01:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.24]) by atuin.qyliss.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5D70F29F5B for ; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 12:01:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 088A1533; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 07:01:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 18 Nov 2020 07:01:30 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=alyssa.is; h= from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; s=fm1; bh=n6BybTNXqLXi4vYc1DvYwFFTE4 j7zRcvXqeYDQSK19o=; b=r1pfR3Q7c/1BLK6Ln88apKE5VPlYssJHYmOraGoWlq SMGpyHrF8PsnkL6NlNcC/vVLzn4pafH7Wk0WCP38lAwA+DmyB6SFETRRYkitmBaH SwvBF1htfzHH1Scl44Up2+qehBiSQsdbWRaJ3RZFCFB8KTo5RSx7t0rwJE7xlGXu w71vtZRfEy1AwVjr2+mZonXkkLcsr7gkXNZIBVs5W17SknCj7IyqnMq3hDIRPtxN 523esrCaMZPgfz+yJ/xJodSGKATPjvr/Z9PU/wQO6GxIiOTry5hyRSdQzgNRbGDr WhgvjS58Q7ci4vHnxY21Too3s982wXAbDgnvx0LfZrXw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:date:from :message-id:mime-version:subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy :x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=n6BybTNXqLXi4vYc1 DvYwFFTE4j7zRcvXqeYDQSK19o=; b=jUGHtnJpXizALFG4rh4WU7umL3l8Uuxiw Z3U6RjdewDOvUoXSjtAHsrLqWsF6NL4if+86i/AsKvDiFkcDxFNF055m9FDPFeg3 +FFTa4D4+5sDJotL0QE3qyXFma2TSsXVfDVCmrvgKMUMXdSVu7EiqImdkNQ8XOZU qlTfdGBjkUhNfNlt0YmEJvgzbwTUO65FypzBdxAKrSHREc4mcd2lUIG+Ww9/IOlL iSkz5f64vZh8vVHTvtPpXbW3kQechBiFw140eh1GtK1Fxi1ORDWJpzdDBBgUP9eu hrG85/VYIZ3+XQZ3xSHE82Vg8yG9KOvJ58TRsIg3cnE37BqMsrQzA== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedujedrudefhedgfeeiucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhephffvufffkffoggfgsedtkeertdertddtnecuhfhrohhmpeetlhihshhsrgcu tfhoshhsuceohhhisegrlhihshhsrgdrihhsqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeelfeelfe fguefgleejtdeufeevkeegtdffvdetudefhfejfffgfeefueelgeelffenucffohhmrghi nhepfihikhhiphgvughirgdrohhrghenucfkphepgeeirdektddrudegfedrudegieenuc evlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehqhihlihhs shesvghvvgdrqhihlhhishhsrdhnvght X-ME-Proxy: Received: from eve.qyliss.net (p2e508f92.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [46.80.143.146]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id C4EAB3280066; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 07:01:28 -0500 (EST) Received: by eve.qyliss.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 15770818; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 12:01:27 +0000 (UTC) From: Alyssa Ross To: devel@spectrum-os.org Subject: [PATCH www] design.html: backpedal a bit on POWER9 Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 12:01:16 +0000 Message-Id: <20201118120116.21390-1-hi@alyssa.is> X-Mailer: git-send-email 2.27.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID-Hash: MBDC7B7PCPZP7GW5FGCUSGIDCU5KDSSG X-Message-ID-Hash: MBDC7B7PCPZP7GW5FGCUSGIDCU5KDSSG X-MailFrom: qyliss@eve.qyliss.net X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-config-1; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; suspicious-header CC: Molly Miller X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Patches and low-level development discussion Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Supporting POWER9 isn't going to be as easy as I'd initially hoped. This patch aims to explain that there are blockers that I'd need help overcoming to be able to support it, even though I'd still like to. I don't want to be promising anything I can't deliver on, and I now know that it's very unlikely I'll be able to deliver on this without help. Reported-by: Molly Miller --- design.html | 32 ++++++++++++++++++++------------ 1 file changed, 20 insertions(+), 12 deletions(-) diff --git a/design.html b/design.html index 181c15c..f683ed4 100644 --- a/design.html +++ b/design.html @@ -127,18 +127,26 @@ Management Engine / AMD Platform Security Processor. =20 -

So, Spectrum will additionally have -first class support for at least ppc64le. This architecture has been -chosen because it is the only other architecture that can come close -to the sheer performance x86_64 can offer at the high end, and -because, in stark contrast to x86_64, it is possible to buy a new -ppc64le (POWER9) system that does not require any proprietary firmware -that cannot be inspected and audited. It is a goal of the project to -build all packages, x86_64 and ppc64le, on POWER9 hardware. Even if a -user has to trust the x86_64 computer available to them, anti-freedom -firmware, undocumented backdoors and all, it would be a disservice to -them to force them to use packages built on other such untrustworthy -hardware. +

+I would like Spectrum to additionally have first class support for at +least ppc64le. This is the only other architecture that can come +close to the sheer performance x86_64 can offer at the high end, and +in stark contrast to x86_64, it is possible to buy a new ppc64le +(POWER9) system that does not require any proprietary firmware that +cannot be inspected and audited. A blocker for POWER9 support is an +support in crosvm for virtualizing that architecture, which is outside +the expertise of anybody currently working on Spectrum but would be a +very welcome contribution. + +

+Ideally, all Spectrum packages, x86_64 and ppc64le, would be built on +POWER9 hardware. Even if a user has to trust the x86_64 computer +available to them, anti-freedom firmware, undocumented backdoors and +all, they would be able to benefit from binary packages that were +built on trustworthy hardware without these limitations. +Unfortunately, preliminary research has shown that x86_64 +virtualization on POWER9 is not currently sufficiantly performant for +this to be feasible. =20

Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this --=20 2.27.0